I'm more and more sympathetic to your argument. But to play devil's advocate, couldn't one argue that the Renaissance style derives, in some ways, from the Aristotelianism (and its more positive view of the flesh vs Platonism) that began to make its way onto the scene in the 12/13C? This brings in its train (arguably) a greater focus on the humanity of Christ. We see statues and crucifixes get more common around this time too. So perhaps Renaissance 'naturalism' is part of this trend.
On another note, I remember hearing Alan Fimister (on a podcast somewhere) argue that the Renaissance/classical style of architecture involved a great loss of confidence, and Faith, compared to the gothic style. Instead of Christians doing their own thing, they just copied the ancients. The first 'pastiche', as it were. This seems to backup what you're writing above.
And on yet another note, I thought one view of the Renaissance was that it resulted (in part) from the fall of Constantinople, and the resulting exodus from the East benefiting Italy with its culture. This would suggest that the East and West moved <i>closer</i> at this point, not further, as you're writing above.
So many currents to trace. But for sure, things were going seriously wrong by the Baroque era... there's an kind of arrogance about its art.
I thank you for your efforts of mind and physical labour to share this with us. Folding in Roger Scruton puts the seal on what already seems quality to me.
Robert Graves was also a deep thinker and a plowman of straight lines: third chapter ‘Dame Ocupacyon’ of his book ‘The Crowning Privilege’ seems to belong with your argument, and may interest you.
Thank you so much for this series, and all the other essays regarding the Renaissance. We moved to Italy 18 months ago, (la familia de mio marito e Siciliana), and lived in Rome for five months, (not nearly long enough!). We were painfully confronted by our dismal grasp of the history and art of Europe. Our education was U.S. centric, (where, in Los Angeles, some of the buildings are more than twenty years old!). In any case, we are curating our developing understanding and access to knowledge such as yours is invaluable! We had recently been introduced to Cosimo de' Medici and this was a great build on that. Maybe we can have a coffee in Roma some day! (We try to go often!).
I work very hard to avoid going to the guddawful cesspit that is Rome. It is sometimes impossible, but with the help of friends I manage it most of the time. But it's fine. It turns out there's an entire country attached to it, which has many things to recommend it.
😂😂Cesspit, yes, but an informative one! I really thought I was the only human being on Earth who felt sick walking through the grounds of Villa Borghese, or through the papal apartments of the Vatican. In any case, if you are ever in the Catania area in Sicily, let me know!
Those and the things like them are the nice bits. It's the knee deep wading through infinite piles of rat-infested garbage, fighting off orcs and criminals along the way that I object to. And there are nice bits that don't involve the garbage-wading all over the country.
I was referring to the decadent levels of sickening, (and completely corrupting), wealth and power that were afforded to those who were ‘friends’ with papal Rome.
But it takes wealth and power of that level to accomplish the things they accomplished. We are, in the post-French Revolution world, mentally trained to despise the wealthy as inherently immoral people, and their wealth as evil. This is, however, a modern and post-Enlightenment way of thinking that has resulted in no good either for the poor, the middle classes or the wealthy. In effect it differs not at all from plain envy.
I agree. Been looking hard at ancient Egypt lately....and feeling heretical for realising democracy sucks as a system of governance. By the way, you do know that Rome instituted bins, right? No more wading through trash....😂
And it's not the wealth or power I despise - it is the inherent arrogance that goes with it. IMHO, the French Revolution accelerated the downfall of the West. Turbocharged it.
I'm more and more sympathetic to your argument. But to play devil's advocate, couldn't one argue that the Renaissance style derives, in some ways, from the Aristotelianism (and its more positive view of the flesh vs Platonism) that began to make its way onto the scene in the 12/13C? This brings in its train (arguably) a greater focus on the humanity of Christ. We see statues and crucifixes get more common around this time too. So perhaps Renaissance 'naturalism' is part of this trend.
On another note, I remember hearing Alan Fimister (on a podcast somewhere) argue that the Renaissance/classical style of architecture involved a great loss of confidence, and Faith, compared to the gothic style. Instead of Christians doing their own thing, they just copied the ancients. The first 'pastiche', as it were. This seems to backup what you're writing above.
And on yet another note, I thought one view of the Renaissance was that it resulted (in part) from the fall of Constantinople, and the resulting exodus from the East benefiting Italy with its culture. This would suggest that the East and West moved <i>closer</i> at this point, not further, as you're writing above.
So many currents to trace. But for sure, things were going seriously wrong by the Baroque era... there's an kind of arrogance about its art.
"Between Giotto (d.1337) and Donatello (b.1386) a scant 50 years lies."
And the Black Death and the Western Schism.
This was interesting. Thank you very much.
I thank you for your efforts of mind and physical labour to share this with us. Folding in Roger Scruton puts the seal on what already seems quality to me.
Robert Graves was also a deep thinker and a plowman of straight lines: third chapter ‘Dame Ocupacyon’ of his book ‘The Crowning Privilege’ seems to belong with your argument, and may interest you.
I'm trying to find Part 3!
This wasn't written to be part three, but it's in the same vein.
https://open.substack.com/pub/hilarywhite/p/no-the-renaissance-man-is-not-the?r=9bqqp&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank you so much for this series, and all the other essays regarding the Renaissance. We moved to Italy 18 months ago, (la familia de mio marito e Siciliana), and lived in Rome for five months, (not nearly long enough!). We were painfully confronted by our dismal grasp of the history and art of Europe. Our education was U.S. centric, (where, in Los Angeles, some of the buildings are more than twenty years old!). In any case, we are curating our developing understanding and access to knowledge such as yours is invaluable! We had recently been introduced to Cosimo de' Medici and this was a great build on that. Maybe we can have a coffee in Roma some day! (We try to go often!).
I work very hard to avoid going to the guddawful cesspit that is Rome. It is sometimes impossible, but with the help of friends I manage it most of the time. But it's fine. It turns out there's an entire country attached to it, which has many things to recommend it.
😂😂Cesspit, yes, but an informative one! I really thought I was the only human being on Earth who felt sick walking through the grounds of Villa Borghese, or through the papal apartments of the Vatican. In any case, if you are ever in the Catania area in Sicily, let me know!
Those and the things like them are the nice bits. It's the knee deep wading through infinite piles of rat-infested garbage, fighting off orcs and criminals along the way that I object to. And there are nice bits that don't involve the garbage-wading all over the country.
I was referring to the decadent levels of sickening, (and completely corrupting), wealth and power that were afforded to those who were ‘friends’ with papal Rome.
But it takes wealth and power of that level to accomplish the things they accomplished. We are, in the post-French Revolution world, mentally trained to despise the wealthy as inherently immoral people, and their wealth as evil. This is, however, a modern and post-Enlightenment way of thinking that has resulted in no good either for the poor, the middle classes or the wealthy. In effect it differs not at all from plain envy.
I agree. Been looking hard at ancient Egypt lately....and feeling heretical for realising democracy sucks as a system of governance. By the way, you do know that Rome instituted bins, right? No more wading through trash....😂
And it's not the wealth or power I despise - it is the inherent arrogance that goes with it. IMHO, the French Revolution accelerated the downfall of the West. Turbocharged it.
This really has helped so much in my study of Byzantine Art! But I will never in a million years understand putti.